Cichlids of Victoria

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 Post subject: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:10 am 
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I have a 55g with nothing but mbipia luteas', Would their be any suitable vic;s that i can put in with them? I am mainly worried about cross breeding


Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:10 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:00 am 
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Hi Mr. Thc,

when your Mbipia lutea are grown up your tank will be to small for a group of them. I would not take any other vic together with them. They will become very aggressive. It is better to put other species like Melanotaenia into the tank.
Pay attention with the M.luteas: My experiences with this species ( 100 g tank and bigger) are that when you keep them for a while and it seems to be nearly peaceful in your lutea tank, do not change anythig in it. Don´t put in other fish or decoration and don´t put out anything. Everything that you change will start fights between the fish with the result is that you will have only one or two fish left after a while.

M.lutea will cross breed with other vics. There are some species from the open water like Yssichromis. I think they will not cross breed. But the open water species have nearly no aggressions and therefore no chance against the M.lutea.
Keep them alone and you will have very colorful and interesting fish.
Best wishes
Axel


Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:00 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:43 pm 
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thanx for the advice, do you think yellow labs would be better tank mates? Or would i end up with the same issues?

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:evil: cf. Mbipia lutea aka "spot-bars" :evil:
1 Petrocephalus bovei bovei
1 Chromobotia macracanthus
1 Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus


Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Axel";p="6293 wrote:
Hi Mr. Thc,
It is better to put other species like Melanotaenia into the tank.
Best wishes
Axel
Rainbow fish are cheap and beautiful.

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Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:52 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:43 pm 
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I would not take any cichlid.
But I have read later in your other post that you keep Mbipia lutea spot bar. I don´t know this Mbipia -lutea??-
The M.lutea about which I wrote is from Makobe Island. And I think it reached the US the first time with our shiping.
In 1995 Ole gave me all this species to take care for them while he was at the lake. After his trip they should be sent to the US. Unfortunately they all died in my tank (150 g).
So this species i think will never have reached your country. About the M. spot bar Ole told us that it is not a M.lutea.
All Mbipia species which we know belong to the most aggressive vic cichlids.
Mbipia lutea can grow to a size of 8 inch.
I have very good experiences with rainbow fish. Melanotaenia boesemanni or Melanotaenia parkinsoni.
Axel


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:22 am 
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Axel wrote:
I would not take any cichlid.
But I have read later in your other post that you keep Mbipia lutea spot bar. I don´t know this Mbipia -lutea??-
The M.lutea about which I wrote is from Makobe Island. And I think it reached the US the first time with our shiping.
In 1995 Ole gave me all this species to take care for them while he was at the lake. After his trip they should be sent to the US. Unfortunately they all died in my tank (150 g).
So this species i think will never have reached your country. About the M. spot bar Ole told us that it is not a M.lutea.
All Mbipia species which we know belong to the most aggressive vic cichlids.
Mbipia lutea can grow to a size of 8 inch.
I have very good experiences with rainbow fish. Melanotaenia boesemanni or Melanotaenia parkinsoni.
Axel
you say you don't know these fish? well here is link to the iucn about them,
http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/60574/0

These fish are also known as Haplochromis sp. "spotbar" or Mbipia Lutea, and all the info i have gathered about them and the breeders who i got them from say they should only grow to be 4",, isnt much info on the net about them tho.

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:evil: cf. Mbipia lutea aka "spot-bars" :evil:
1 Petrocephalus bovei bovei
1 Chromobotia macracanthus
1 Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus


Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:22 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:10 am 
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It is a difference between Mbipia lutea and Mbipia sp. "spot bar".
Your link shows the Mbipia lutea which is found in Europe. The "spot bar" can as much as I know be found only on your continent.


Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:10 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:34 am 
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Can anyone post pics of the fish that are being discussed for comparison?


Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:34 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 am 
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my males arent fully colored yet, but these are
http://s863.photobucket.com/albums/ab19 ... alutea.jpg
http://s863.photobucket.com/albums/ab19 ... k56_20.jpg

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:evil: cf. Mbipia lutea aka "spot-bars" :evil:
1 Petrocephalus bovei bovei
1 Chromobotia macracanthus
1 Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus


Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:29 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:40 am 
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Sorry, but until now I have not found the way how to put pics in this forum.
I could send it to one of you with e-mail. Or you can look at
www.ig-victoriasee-cichliden.de
Then click at "Artenliste", find Mbipia lutea and click at "Detailansicht".


Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:40 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:49 am 
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Mbipi lutea from Europe (IgV)
Image

I believe the fish in the US was initially called a Haplochromis sp. "spot-bar" Yala Swamp and someone examined it closely (perhaps the dentin) and called it a Mibipia cf. lutea Yala Swamp "spot-bar". It is not a true lutea from Lake Victoria proper, but a fish that is comparable to a lutea and caught in Yala Swamp. The cf. in the name is very important; This is Latin for confer.
From wikipedia:
"cf. is an abbreviation for the Latin word confer, meaning "compare" or "consult", and is hence used to refer to other material or ideas which may provide different information or arguments. It is mainly used in scholarly or educated contexts, such as in academic (mainly humanities) or legal texts."

These two simple letters indicate that this id is a best guess of sorts, and that there is some scholarly debate about it's true identification. So when speaking about this cichlid, it is important to use the cf. in it's name, or use the Haplochromis sp. "spot-bar" name.

Yes, I know, it can seem needlessly complex. This is what you find when the science has not caught up to the fish collections. It would be so much easier if they could pull the fish out of the water, name it, and that would be that. But in science, you must build consensus, and get comments before a formal name can be given.

There are many undescribed cichlids in the hobby, this is an attempt by someone to describe this fish using a Greenwood naming convention. Not to get too technical, but the old naming convention Haplochromis was developed by F.M. Hilgendorf in 1888 for many genera of fish in Victoria. (Wikipedia has more details) Greenwood in 1980, attempted to reorganize Haplochromis and renamed many of them to correspond to genera that were a more accurate formal de.scription. His de.scriptions have been a topic of scholarly arguments ever since as some continue to use his framework to name new found Haplochromis cichlids and rename many Haplochromis if the de.scriptions closely match. Yet his naming conventions came later and thus are junior synonyms to the original Haplochromis designations.

It is important to know this fish is thought not to be a hybrid, but a naturally occurring species caught in Yala Swamp in the Victoria crater basin. The red list fish you point to Thc, is the true Mbipia lutea from Victoria proper. Your fish was caught in Yala Swamp, most likely as part of a collection investigating the surrounding Lake Victoria Basin lakes looking for cichlids similar to the species found in Lake Victoria proper. At the time, Mbipia lutea and many LV species were thought extinct, nearly extinct or natural hybrids. This effort, spurred by the LV-SSP (Lake Victoria Species Survival Plan) of the AZA (American Zoological Association), was made to get genetically similar species for the eventual re-population of Lake Victoria. Many of the non Lake Victorian - LV basin Haplochromis in the US hobby and US zoos are from this collection effort.

Do not breed these fish with the Mbipia lutea!

Mibipia cf. lutea Yala Swamp "spot-bar", as sold by Dave' Rare Aquarium Fish.

Image


Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:49 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:50 am 
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Here some pics from Mbipia lutea (IGV)

[align=center][fullalbumimg]587[/fullalbumimg][/align]

[align=center][fullalbumimg]588[/fullalbumimg][/align]

[align=center][fullalbumimg]388[/fullalbumimg][/align]

More under MY ALBUM

Greetings
Thomas


Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:50 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:45 am 
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thanx for the info, was very informative, one thing, my fish don't look exactly like the one in the first link, my fish were fathered by the male in the second link, i don't know if it makes a difference but the one in the first link which you re-posted in your reply doesn't have the dark black line/spot pattern down the side of the fish, but mine do

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:evil: cf. Mbipia lutea aka "spot-bars" :evil:
1 Petrocephalus bovei bovei
1 Chromobotia macracanthus
1 Pterygoplichthys joselimaianus


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:59 am 
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Yes, it does make a difference. And you see it. That's great. The key here is to know what you have and see the difference. We need to keep the two lines separated.
The first link is a Mbipia lutea from lake Victoria.
The second link is Mbipia cf. lutea "spot-bar" from Yala Swamp.
They are not the same.
You describe the spot-bar on the flank of your fish, the Lake Victoria M. lutea does not have that marking.

Both are very nice fish.

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Like my Hill Country Holey rock? I was the winner of this donation from a HCCC member to a NYCichlids auction.


Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:59 am
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 Post subject: Re: Potential Mbipia Lutea tank mates?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:33 pm 
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The are indeed both beautiful fish. So the spot bars are a similar looking fish from the Yala swamp, that apparently do not grow nearly as large. I am very curious about the aggression with the spot bars. THC, how are they with each other?


Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:33 pm
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