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 Post subject: Re: US Import/Export License
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:52 am 
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I think walk out USA would be more effective. An armed revolution just puts more money into halliburton's hands, and I am sure the medical insurance companies too!

The US Military wants an armed revolution IMO, this would be much more cost efficient than fighting overseas and their sponsors get more and more rich!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:24 pm 
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If this was such a good bill why are 37 states looking at or are going to file lawsuits to stop it. California can't afford what they are proposing. We are already 20 billion in debt.

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Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:24 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:16 pm 
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s10jimmy";p="4583 wrote:
Revolution's the ONLY solution ! The armed response of an entire nation ! :twisted:

I'm stocked up!
Jim If I could get the time off I would be there!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Big Jim";p="4582 wrote:
Let's stop talking politics. We all have our own views on whats going on. I really don't want to hurt people feelings, and I could in a hart beat.

Jim, if you would like to stop, I will when you will. Else, I won't. :wink:
I promise not to get personal and try to deal with facts. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

I would never think that this bill is that good, it is just better than status quo and will lower costs. A better bill would add the House Resolution 4789, which would make our system similar to Germany's. Better still would be some kind of additional clause that would prevent doctors from refusing Medicare patients and preexisting conditions (a clause that was removed). Even though this affects doctors the most, they support the reform by a wide majority. The doctors who don't support it all seem to be employed by large corporations, equipment manufacturers, designers and patent holders or to be heavily invested in those industries; those with monopolies already in place.

The health care bill is a sham giveaway to insurers. Congress is owned by Wall Street.

Allen, I really don't think we are far apart on this. Even though you are a small business owner, I don't believe that you would fall into the category of top tax bracket. Factually, small business owners have gotten the shaft as they have had to pick up the greatest burden. But it isn't because of social programs for the poor, as they are peanuts compared to the money for fortune 100 companies.
Remember the 1950's, which many conservatives (small "C") pine for? Top tax bracket was 90% and the Fed Gov paid for the super majority of services; roads, bridges, sewer, water, public transportation. You name it, the government had money for it and the country was better for it. Even then with the permanent war standing and military bases around the world, that protect corporate interests most, it was paid for. Federal deficits after WWII did not start until the late sixties and seventies, after the first tax cuts.

The other half of the tax issue as I described above is what was done to fill the short fall in government revenue due to cutting the top income tax bracket. They pushed the expenses to the state. Every service that was subsidized at high rates by the Federal government has been dramatically cut at the federal level due to the revenue shortfall by cutting that top tax bracket.
School funding used to be provided at 80% from the federal government. Since LBJ, that expense has been pushed to the state, who then pushed it to the local school districts who then raised the money by raising property taxes. The Federal government now provides only ~18% of school funding (depending on state formulations), about what local governments provided originally under the law before "tax reform". This has totally gutted the education system in the US, which was designed to provide equity of education funding between poor communities and wealthy communities.
This same process has been applied to all government services, roads, bridges, sewer, water, public transportation, more recently prisons, armies, police and the voting system.
The end result has been to make these things into for profit private entities, which are noticeably more corrupt, badly regulated, less efficient and the inner workings are trade secrets and protected by copyrights, where no oversight is possible. At least with government there is a public system of accounting and oversight with all but the most sensitive security info and inner workings out in the open.

The only taxes radically reformed or reduced have been the wealthy, those who earn enough to be in the top tax bracket. Everyone else has had to suck it up and pay the difference.

For a glaring example of how bad the class divide is these days, the GAO in 2009 before Obama took office, published that ~99% of all dollars in circulation are controlled by 400 individuals, 1% is split up among all the millions of others.

As far as the Tea Party "movement" goes, I respect the original Ron Paul lead unorganized organization who debate on the merits. The new "Tea bag" tea party movement is an Astroturf organization funded primarily by Fox News and the Republican Party through other third party entities such as PACs and not for profits that has used fear and racism to ratchet up the rhetoric and as G W Bush has said, "catapult the propaganda". Notice that Ron Paul will not engage or be associated with them.

s10jimmy";p="4583 wrote:
Revolution's the ONLY solution ! The armed response of an entire nation ! :twisted:


Yes s10jimmy that is what will happen if this is not dealt with soon. The contingency plans are already in place with the mercenaries of Haliburton subsidiaries, Xe, working within the US.

Dave";p="4576 wrote:
Allen
It's good to hear that the Feds came through for you in spite of themselves. Good thing it the service isn't privatized the fee would probably be astronomical!

This is a great point, as anywhere the government has "privitzed" it came with more waste, fraud, corruption, and expence than with the government program it replaced.

BTW Allen, congratulation on the licence.

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Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:27 pm
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 Post subject: Re: US Import/Export License
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Yes congrats on the license. I assume that is how our fish are getting into the states.

I think we can all agree that politics in general has become at least in our lifetimes a fairly sleazy occupation regardless of the political affiliation. It seem at least to me that party politics have taken place of what is good for the country.

I'd like to propose that a separate section be created for members only that would like to engage in this type of polite conversation otherwise we should stick to the topic before feathers get unnecessarily ruffled

Vics brought us to this site please let's keep it that way.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Dave";p="4590 wrote:
Yes congrats on the license. I assume that is how our fish are getting into the states.

I think we can all agree that politics in general has become at least in our lifetimes a fairly sleazy occupation regardless of the political affiliation. It seem at least to me that party politics have taken place of what is good for the country.

I'd like to propose that a separate section be created for members only that would like to engage in this type of polite conversation otherwise we should stick to the topic before feathers get unnecessarily ruffled

Vics brought us to this site please let's keep it that way.


I agree with you. Allen know I can go on forever on this. This is not the place for it. I was giving me a hard time earlier. For the record I'm not happy with ether party, that's why I'm a independent now. I was once a Democrat.

teknikAL you are talking about the tax on the rich during the depression? This never got us out of the depression, WWII did that. It took wall street tell 1952 or 55 to fully pull out of the depression.


Last edited by Big Jim on Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:09 pm
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 Post subject: Re: US Import/Export License
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Bah, the world is gonna do what the world is gonna do. The .gov is going to do what they want to do, even if they have to fix elections and train puppets to get the job done. I am an American that has lost faith in the .gov, I have not lost faith in my country or my countrymen but I have lost faith in those who are in charge of it.

Politics is the worst discussion that we could possible discuss in the open forum. We are all going to have different views and the reason is simple. MEDIA has fooled so many how could you not expect the "Majority" to be confused.

There is positively a problem in the USA when it comes to the .gov its called Money. When a .gov can decide to classify the documents that prove they have broken their own laws and the public lets it go? No big deal? Its the .gov, they are exempt?

Yes there is a problem in this country but I do not know that any of the answers people want to lean on are the correct course of action.

Think about it. A revolution sounds fun, after all. Its the AMERICAN way of creating change. But how realistic in this day and age? I mean really, lets think about this..

Russia, Iraq, Germany, Mexico, China, Korea........ they all want the US out of the big boy club.. So if there is a revolution who do you think is going to win? the .gov or the countrymen?

Neither. One of the other world powers are going to step in and kick all our buts while we are squabbling amongst ourselves. If their were 2 well defined side's in the revolution then maybe there would be a chance to still keep the other countries from joining in.

North vs. South? ummm hmmmm. ya I don't see a revolution being as successful as many think, A revolution will cause damage but it will be highly unorganized and the probability of another country joining into the fun is most certainly there.....

If you guys want a private forum to discuss politics, I can help you.

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 Post subject: Re: US Import/Export License
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:45 pm 
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I don't want to talk politics but having a members only area to do so is better than airing our dirty laundry for all to see. I'd rather talk fish. Politics makes my brain hurt! :lol:

I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said an occasional revolution was healthy or something like it. I don't want to find the exact quote. My brain hurts :cry:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Thomas Jefferson

Here is a link to other quotes from Jefferson:
Thomas Jefferson Quotes

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:38 pm 
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teknikAL";p="4589 wrote:

I would never think that this bill is that good, it is just better than status quo and will lower costs. A better bill would add the House Resolution 4789, which would make our system similar to Germany's. Better still would be some kind of additional clause that would prevent doctors from refusing Medicare patients and preexisting conditions (a clause that was removed). Even though this affects doctors the most, they support the reform by a wide majority. The doctors who don't support it all seem to be employed by large corporations, equipment manufacturers, designers and patent holders or to be heavily invested in those industries; those with monopolies already in place.

The health care bill is a sham giveaway to insurers. Congress is owned by Wall Street.

Allen, I really don't think we are far apart on this. Even though you are a small business owner, I don't believe that you would fall into the category of top tax bracket. Factually, small business owners have gotten the shaft as they have had to pick up the greatest burden. But it isn't because of social programs for the poor, as they are peanuts compared to the money for fortune 100 companies.
Remember the 1950's, which many conservatives (small "C") pine for? Top tax bracket was 90% and the Fed Gov paid for the super majority of services; roads, bridges, sewer, water, public transportation. You name it, the government had money for it and the country was better for it. Even then with the permanent war standing and military bases around the world, that protect corporate interests most, it was paid for. Federal deficits after WWII did not start until the late sixties and seventies, after the first tax cuts.

The other half of the tax issue as I described above is what was done to fill the short fall in government revenue due to cutting the top income tax bracket. They pushed the expenses to the state. Every service that was subsidized at high rates by the Federal government has been dramatically cut at the federal level due to the revenue shortfall by cutting that top tax bracket.
School funding used to be provided at 80% from the federal government. Since LBJ, that expense has been pushed to the state, who then pushed it to the local school districts who then raised the money by raising property taxes. The Federal government now provides only ~18% of school funding (depending on state formulations), about what local governments provided originally under the law before "tax reform". This has totally gutted the education system in the US, which was designed to provide equity of education funding between poor communities and wealthy communities.
This same process has been applied to all government services, roads, bridges, sewer, water, public transportation, more recently prisons, armies, police and the voting system.
The end result has been to make these things into for profit private entities, which are noticeably more corrupt, badly regulated, less efficient and the inner workings are trade secrets and protected by copyrights, where no oversight is possible. At least with government there is a public system of accounting and oversight with all but the most sensitive security info and inner workings out in the open.

The only taxes radically reformed or reduced have been the wealthy, those who earn enough to be in the top tax bracket. Everyone else has had to suck it up and pay the difference.

For a glaring example of how bad the class divide is these days, the GAO in 2009 before Obama took office, published that ~99% of all dollars in circulation are controlled by 400 individuals, 1% is split up among all the millions of others.

As far as the Tea Party "movement" goes, I respect the original Ron Paul lead unorganized organization who debate on the merits. The new "Tea bag" tea party movement is an Astroturf organization funded primarily by Fox News and the Republican Party through other third party entities such as PACs and not for profits that has used fear and racism to ratchet up the rhetoric and as G W Bush has said, "catapult the propaganda". Notice that Ron Paul will not engage or be associated with them.

s10jimmy";p="4583 wrote:
Revolution's the ONLY solution ! The armed response of an entire nation ! :twisted:


Yes s10jimmy that is what will happen if this is not dealt with soon. The contingency plans are already in place with the mercenaries of Haliburton subsidiaries, Xe, working within the US.

Dave";p="4576 wrote:
Allen
It's good to hear that the Feds came through for you in spite of themselves. Good thing it the service isn't privatized the fee would probably be astronomical!

This is a great point, as anywhere the government has "privitzed" it came with more waste, fraud, corruption, and expence than with the government program it replaced.

BTW Allen, congratulation on the licence.





For the record this is what I like, Verifiable facts. Too many big scary words are thrown around with not a shred of proof.

I respect everyone on this forum, and don't think politics will ever interfere with what we are doing, at least not member polotics. I do think a member only section for discussion (viewable by the public) is a worthy cause, because I truly think part of the problem is those that we most often get to see discussing Politics are not the everyday Americans, but rather coporate entities. I would rather argue with friends than yell at my TV ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:55 pm 
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may as well discuss abortion or religion.
won't get anywhere with the opposite side.
been that way since before our time, and will continue after the time of our children.
hmmm, what can i use for tankmates of my chilotes?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:58 pm 
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I love to talk politics. I was a history major and a political science minor in college. I come from a family of liberals. I don't know how I became so conservative. Lets talk fish for now on.

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http://www.jnjcichlids.com/
2800 gallons and growing

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!"
Thomas Jefferson.


Last edited by Big Jim on Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:24 am 
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Boring.

I see enough and hear enough of this in the media already and I'm way down here in Australia.

I don't come to a fish forum to read this crap

Sorry


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I like fish!

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rofsl you guys are funny.

at least allen got his license.

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Big Jim";p="4586 wrote:
If this was such a good bill why are 37 states looking at or are going to file lawsuits to stop it. California can't afford what they are proposing. We are already 20 billion in debt.



Sorry, I have to respond to this one Big Jim,

The reason is because those states have huge backing from the medical industries to do just this. More than 60% of American bankruptcy's are because of medical bill debt. Without the debt you have consumers that spend more, which equals more money for large businesses, and for tax revenue. Creating health care for all is not just about health care, it creates a circular complete fix to many of our current crisis, and without it we will keep plummeting into a third world state.

For the record I have not had health insurance since I was 16. Most large employers that pay $10 an hour or less prefer to drop employees before their 3 months are up, ie before they qualify for health insurance. I have seen many of my friends and family who are dedicated workers face this. Even if you do manage to hang on to the job the health insurance they give you is nearly meaningless. My grandmother who was on a fixed income and worked all her life until she was no longer healthy enough to, payed $800 a month for Meds !

So broken.


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