Cichlids of Victoria

CichlidsofVictoria.com is dedicated to the discussion and husbandry of African Cichlids especially the Victorian species
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 Post subject: recent additions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:45 pm 
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i was not to happy when i was looking to add to my little group of pundamilia nyereri makobe island so i placed an order from retailer and recieved these. they are well over two inches. any ideas what they may be? i dont think they are makobe island, if even a pundamilia.

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Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:45 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Hi Ross it has some P.pundamilia features.
xris :)


Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:30 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:17 pm 
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well the place i got them from at first he claimed they were the makobe red nyereri and that is why i bought them to add to my very small colony. then he sent a email today saying they were bought from oldworld and that they are actually pundamilia pundamilia zebra nyereri makobe. i know that species was brought in back in 2007 by oldworld. the guy i got them from claimed f-1. could be true if they came from old world.
chris that is what i thought when i first seen them too. because the anal fin,tail fin coloration dorsal fin coloration blue topped with red trim, and the slight blue sheen on the flank. here is the picture sent to me today this being the w/c father
Image

im a little concerned about the head shape seems more rounded in the ones i got than the father. they appear to be in good health.
if i end up convinced they are pundamilia pundamilia nyereri zebra makobe ill be keeping them. because they are rare and f-1. id like to ask laif himself but lost his number.

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Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:17 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:28 am 
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Hi They are P.pundamilia, the snout profile may change with age,this is a very rare species in the hobby being quite agressive and territorials.
xris :)


Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:28 am
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:57 am 
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thanks chris :D :D :D

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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:10 am 
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i have pundamilia nyereri makobe island that i got from old world but i only have a male left


Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:10 am
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:54 pm 
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mnjason wrote:
i have pundamilia nyereri makobe island that i got from old world but i only have a male left


Mnjason, Do you think you could post a pic for comparison, I am sure Dman would appreciate it, and this is how we all learn.. pics pics pics ;)


Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:54 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:40 am 
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ill take some today or tomorrow


Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:40 am
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:06 pm 
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deadman wrote:
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This fish may well be Pundamilia pundamilia senga, looks very close.
The others i would see how they colour up over time before accepting they are pure Pundamilia pundamilia makobe , i would be questioning them if i were in deadmans shoes.

I followed the threads at the time of the wild imports a couple of years back and was under the impression all were to be handled with suspicion. This is the difference with a commercial collection and a scientist/student collection from an institute of learning that study the fish first before releasing fry out into the public domain. Unfortunately we have to accept this sort of thing with vics and any new collections in the future may already be "natural" hybrids unless the location is carefully chosen (clear off shore waters where it still maybe possible to net holding females)


Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:06 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:14 pm 
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sorry thats the best i could do tonight he's not into the photo's

but i also got some Pundamilia pundamilia "zebra nyererei" Makombe Island from old world the other week

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Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:14 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:20 am 
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Hi Mnjason, this is Pundamilia pundamilia and not P.nyererei Makobe.P.sp"zebra" or zebra nyererei is another name for P.pundamilia, this is one species.
xris :)


Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:20 am
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:13 pm 
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ok sorry thats what they were sold to me as


Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:13 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:58 pm 
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It looks like this whole problem could have started at Old World. I can see how someone could mislabel very easily.

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Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:58 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:13 pm 
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Hello COV,

Oh boy, heck of a thread for a first post.

Hi, my name is Troy Veltrop. A victorian nut from Iowa. I am a member of the HCCC. I won't bore you with the details of my fish "resume" but I work a lot with the C.A.R.E.S. Preservation Program and concentrate specifically on long term maintenance of endangered species. Mostly victorians.

In the interest of this species and it's proper ID, I'd like to add the few unbiased observations and facts.

First, I hold no particular allegiance to Ross, the internet retailer from where he purchased this fish, Old World, or this site (no offense intended guys). My allegiance is to these fish. These are complete 100% unbiased opinions. I am also getting some of these to add to my long term maintenance program here in my fishroom. This is a very cool F1 victorian. Let's not put a dark shadow on it's identification when it should be crystal clear.

The whole reason for this thread was because Ross thought he was buying Pundamilia nyererei "Makobe" not Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe". It isn't because he doesn't think that they aren't Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe".

For those newbies who do not know, Old World Exotic Fish posts their fish list here: http://www.oldworldexoticfish.com/stock.html

I have been eyeballing these fish for a long time now. In their defense, Old world has had the name correct all the time, it is the internet retailer that got it wrong (or at least the images the show for the fish). Old World had it listed exactly like this (cut and paste from the list):

40sm Pundamilia pundamilia "zebra nyererei" Makombe Is F-1

I also followed the 2007 import threads and even got a species off that shipment; Neochromis greenwoodi. I have some F1's of some of the other species from Texas stock. I have good friends who also got some of the imports and purchase most all my fish through a retailer with close ties to all of them. This is the same retailer (not the same as where Ross got his) who I purchased my group of Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe" from and I am waiting arrival. They ultimately come from the same source, Old World, as the species pictured in this thread. There is no reason (except usual vic ID diligence), unless the fish mature to show otherwise, which would mean the original ID was wrong or cross breeding occurred, to suspect that these are anything other than F1 Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe".

The fish were imported in 2007. You can look at Old World's "What's New" for Oct 2007 here:

http://cichlidnews.com/indexwin.html

Choose Oct 2007 from the left menu and then scroll to the Lake Victoria section.

You will see an image of the fish and it's name Pundamilia pundamilia Makobe Island
Image

The above image is *currently* what the internet retailer lists for this species *among* these incorrect ones:

First wrong image:
Image

Second wrong image:
Image

The listing that this fish was purchased from is here and they have it listed as:

F1 Pundamilia (Hap.) Zebra Nyereri Makobe Is

The whole matter of confusion behind this fish is due to a mix-up between Ross and the retailer not the fish or it's correct ID. Ross thought he was purchasing Pundamilia nyererei "Makobe Island". I don't know what the text based part of the original ad said when he bought it, and I don't really care, but the images he looked at before purchasing the fish (and they're still there) are sure not Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe". The last two sure aren't anyway and the first was only added after this ID thread popped up. Maybe they are listing it on their website as it was invoiced to them, but it is listed different on Old World's public lists. Using the most current scientifically accepted name is always a better practice but a lot still use old names or synonyms (or worse...just common names).

So please, unless someone thinks that the fish Ross posted are not Pundamilia pundamilia "Makobe" can we at least agree on their ID as such? This thread could throw possible doubts on a properly identified fish. Who really cares who got it wrong, as long as we know the fish is true. It's an F1 victorian and you don't see those everyday.

Thanks guys and I hope none of you take any offense to this post. None is intended. I have no commercial interest in my fish. Purely preservation. I trade among my fellow hobbyists (if you can nail me down to one spot, eh Jason? Call or PM me dude I can hook you up with your riponianus and others!)

Peace,
~Troy

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~Troy
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One person cannot save them all, but we can each save at least one.


Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:13 pm
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 Post subject: Re: recent additions
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:18 pm 
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It's hard for me to keep up with the name changes. I'm fairly new to Victorians an have been doing a lot if catch up. I did not mean to put Old World on the spot, I was just saying I could see how the name could confuse some of us. I'm use to the Pundamilia pundamilia " collection point". I did mess the Pundamilia pundamilia in the Pundamilia pundamilia "zebra nyererei" Makombe Island. The "zebra nyererei" also through me off. As for the deal with D-man he has the correct ID now so we can move on.

Troy welcome to the forum.

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"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes DUTY!"
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Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:18 pm
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