Cichlids of Victoria

CichlidsofVictoria.com is dedicated to the discussion and husbandry of African Cichlids especially the Victorian species
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 Post subject: rodi use with vics
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:43 am 
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not sure if this is the right place for this or not....topic wise.

so i am buying an rodi unit on a good deal. mainly for my SA planted tank. my tap water is very hard here about 240gh. so i want to knock it down for my plants and fish. i have had very little success with my substrate spanwers and would like to raise a few more fry. :roll:

anyway i was wondering if any of you use an ro or rodi unit to lower hardness. or a better question, what is the hardness of your tanks??

i have read that the lakes gh is between 19-70ppm and the kh or alkalinity is from 12-76ppm. so would lowering my hardness to that level be beneficial? i know the fish i have a re tank raised and do not NEED the lowered hardness but i am having trouble with some species breeding. my python is have not breed for me yet. but my ruby greens go at it all the time. the only difference is tank size, tank mates(one of the main probs i think) and some holy rock in one tank.

but i did notice the bigjim has crushed coral in his tanks for substrate. so just wondering where you guys are at and what you think would be ideal. i know too that having steady tank chemistry is better long term than trying to mix it up, but i want to see if anyone has noticed any changes in their fishes behavior.

dre


Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:43 am
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Allen and I live in the central valley in CA. The water here is very hard I can't tell what it is my test kit dose not have the test. I know my ph is 8.0.

I use the crush coral to keep everything stable through the week. I have friends who have bare bottom tanks and their reading drop as the week go's on. I like to keep things stable, it's better for the fish and they breed more.

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Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:15 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:33 pm 
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If you want to drop the hardness of your water for plants then you could use RO water, distilled water, and putting peat moss in your filters will help also.
Since you are in florida, you can also save up your rainwater and use that.

Its much harder to make hard water soft, then soft water hard.
In California our water is usually hard, so for that reason i concentrate on african fish.

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Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:45 pm 
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right. i plan on using rodi water mixed with tap water to lower it, and will do small changes over time to get it to where i want.

just wanted to see if anyone tries to keep softer water for the vics. i mean when you say rift lakes you think hard water. yet most tap water is harder than that. so in fish terms it is really hard. i might as well start keeping some tangs.... :D

but i plan on using the rodi with my rubies to see if it makes difference or not. with my main group and a small group of fry.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:37 pm 
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what format/gauge are you using?
i have always been told as long as you keep both gH and kH at about 200 you are fine.
malawi is 200-220.
Victoria is about 100-150.
Tanganyika is 200-240 ppm.

you are at 240, i'd not try to lower it to 150, id leave it.
the higher both your gH and kH will be the more stable the pH will be.
so you don't want them lower in african tanks.

pH, Kh and Gh are just some of the components.
They say nothing about how very different the lakes are compared to each other regarding anions and cations.
You can reproduce the ph, gh, and kh of a lake, and still be way off cation and anion wise.

one can go crazy trying to mimic the water.
more than just 3 common variables.

Your water is fine.
If certain fish are not breeding, i doubt its the water chemistry. Some groups of fish just don't breed. Get the same type of fish from another supplier and they just may.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Big Jim";p="569 wrote:
Allen and I live in the central valley in CA. The water here is very hard I can't tell what it is my test kit dose not have the test. I know my ph is 8.0.

I use the crush coral to keep everything stable through the week. I have friends who have bare bottom tanks and their reading drop as the week go's on. I like to keep things stable, it's better for the fish and they breed more.


Bare bottom tanks, or more specifically tanks that don't use crushed coral as a substrate will have changes in ph over time.
they have no buffering capacity.

thats why i use bare tanks, BUT i use crushed coral in my filters.
that way my tanks are easy to clean AND they are still buffered.

without crushed coral, and of course water changes, your pH will drop because of the fish breathing, pooping and peeing.
all will cause the water to be more acidic in addition to raising the ammonia levels.

crushed coral aids in the prevention of ph changes, thus its called a buffer.


Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:57 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:30 pm 
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thanks for the info tr6.

but i think your numbers for the hardness are off a little. which is my other concern, where and who gave this info in the first place??

i was referred to this site
http://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm

about 3 months ago. the numbers that were recorded are very different then what most people believe now. actually they are much much lower.

this is going with the fact that i am reading this chart accurately(which i may not be). but i thought that Total hardness as
calcium carbonate
CaCO3 (mg/L)
number is the same as ppm. were for us hobbiest mg/l is the same as ppm.

is this a correct assumption?
if not how would i convert it to ppm or degrees to find the hardness i am more familiar with?

anyway thanks for your time and helps guys.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:54 pm 
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yes, mg/l is equal to ppm for gH and kH.
the other number i was told to keep at is 10 of dH.
I think if you multiply the dH say my example of 10 by 15 (not sure exactly what the conversion number is) you get the gH or kH, or a pretty close number.
So what i'm getting at, in order for me to not have to memorize a bunch of different numbers i was told 200 and 200, and that the different measurement of dH and 10 is a close approximation of 200.
though i think 15 is closer to 200 in actuality.

i have seen that chart, as well as a million others with a million different answers.
various places will give you different temps and pH's, let alone more complex chemistry differences.
which is part of the reason people go crazy.
They want the correct answer, but what is correct?
everyone has a different correct answer.
thats why many of us just don't bother playing chemist.
keep the tank clean and stable and the basic chemistry in range best you can.

But the 200's are what i have went with for years, though have not tried to manipulate.

I'm not at home so i don't have my Konings library on me, but i do have my pocket Mark Smith books, and those are the numbers he gives for the lakes. Which concur with my learned numbers of 200.

Konings may say something different, but again different people will have different numbers. The lakes are big as states, and though they are stable in relative terms, there are ranges.

The pH ranges on the chart you linked are narrower and higher than what i have learned.
The data they got was from 1967 and partially updated in 1997. Many researches have been there since 1997 with different numbers, what ever that may mean.
I would suspect with the shrinking oxygen layer of Victoria and the increased algae blooms and phosphorus and nitrate runoff into the lake the numbers are quite different both in average and in specific areas of Victoria.
More stuff to discuss with Chuck Rambo next time i see him.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:23 pm 
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yea its can get to be a bit to much. and yea the lakes are stable but they do vary with changes in the environment also. i think thats half of the problem anyway, some data is from the 60s and some from the 90s. both are right yet both are wrong.

anyway i am picking up my rodi unit on thur and should be hooking it up to test it out. cant wait.i hope my planted tank loves me for it, or else!!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:28 pm 
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I'm sure your plant tank will be very happy.
Plants and discus, now those are things where i'd be concerned with water chemistry.
You got a CO2 tank for your plants too?

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 Post subject: Re: rodi use with vics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:29 pm 
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:lol: forget those plants...It s all about Vics...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:03 pm 
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yea, a small reactor. not really enough for a 55 but i supplement with flourish excel once or twice a week. i need to get more flourish since i see some brown-age on the leaves, lack of iron me thinks.

dont hate ecvicman!!!!! :P

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 Post subject: Re: rodi use with vics
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:24 pm 
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:lol: ok man I will leave you alone with that Rodi what ever it is...


Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:01 pm 
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reverse osmosis de ionizer.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:38 pm 
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rofls got it and have not set it up yet, no time. nor space either, dont know where to put it. thought the laundry room was good but i dont have room for storage in there.

ha... i need to move into a house already.

and ed your conductivity meter is awesome, i love the temp readings too. THANKS BUD!!!!

might buy my own next week. well see have to get another car for my girl soon.... instead of more fish tanks.

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