dre_day wrote (View Post): › they might be around in the US, but the people who have them are very tight about whom they give the fry to. rightfully so. they dont want to just push it out to everyone. they keep it in the circle of serious hobbyists. but to find these people is hard. then you have to prove to them how committed you are and then buy like 5 fry. and usually they make sure to give you all one sex. lol i dont know for sure just talking out my $$$. but i found some people who keep neo. ruf. and omin. but they would not even respond to my emails and such. so you might be able to find then here but it might not be possible to get them. my best advice is ask kevinb, he knows where most of the fish can be located. good luck.

I'm sure they'll come out of the woodwork when all you guys pull this off. After all, in the end it will be to their advantage as well.

Oh yeah, the hoarders will come out of the woodwork, to either complete their collections, or help the blood lines.

hey trades work for me..... as long as they can match the fish we are getting. it will be hard to add more lines from this excellent source. i probably will only trade with you guys anyway.

I will only trade with you guys until everybody has what they want, then.. "let them come".

bovsbaitboxes wrote (View Post): › question about the 3 fish on my list how avail are they in US ( I know these will be a better bloodline) there is one more I would like but dont know with the price I have been seeing if I can relly afford 4 species thanks John

I hesitate to respond as I don't want to kill the deal, but getting strains not readily available and having proper info is important.
John,
These are some of the same source of bloodlines as you see at Dave's Rare Fish. Many lines are already here as Kevin B pointed out. For example, the Lithochromis (Hap.) xantopteryx Makombe, Harpagochromis sp. 'Orange Rock Hunter' Gabalema Islands, & Pyxichromis orthostoma Lake Nawampassa, listed on Dave's originated in Europe with one of either the Swiss, German or French curators. Haplochromis.org which is also is associated with the project , is based in France, and trade with Axel and Marco in an effort to keep Victorian strains alive. The Euro Vics that Old World had (has) recently came from these affiliated groups....They also get some species from Liaf at Old World, so they do have the same lines for some fish, but some of the more recent Victorians on the scene in the US are from these Euro lines. Saying this, I must also add that Marco is very descerning in choosing stock that is registered with his group.
If you pick around the websites that Axel and Marco have left links to: http://www.cichlidenwelt.de/wbb/jgs_portal.php?sid=
You can actually find out the history of the lines in this group of collectors. Here are some associate's websites:
http://www.welss.de/
http://www.haplochromis.unl.pl/
http://www.haplochromis.org/
http://www.zoonen.com/minzoon.asp?oid=157342
http://www.ig-victoriasee-cichliden.de/

I would definately get a pundamila not represented here in the US, but Dave has the ORH for a good price @ 2"-3" as well as the Entichromis sp. Red Back Scraper from these lines. I am not so sur about the sp. Salmon, although Kevin B. seems to have a nice line now.
Have you seen the sp. Red Rock Sheller? That is not in the US as far as I can tell and Axel's speciman looks gorgeous.

dre_day wrote (View Post): › they might be around in the US, but the people who have them are very tight about whom they give the fry to. rightfully so. they dont want to just push it out to everyone. they keep it in the circle of serious hobbyists. but to find these people is hard. then you have to prove to them how committed you are and then buy like 5 fry. and usually they make sure to give you all one sex. lol i dont know for sure just talking out my $$$. but i found some people who keep neo. ruf. and omin. but they would not even respond to my emails and such. so you might be able to find then here but it might not be possible to get them. my best advice is ask kevinb, he knows where most of the fish can be located. good luck.

This type of talk is very disappointing as you are assigning motivations and actions to people you do not even know. Comments like this, Dre, are not appreciated by me and IMHO I am sure that the administrators do not appreciate the foul smell that they generate on the site. I certainly hope the administrators respond as I believe they would like to attract people to contribute, and comments like this are just a reason not to.
I'm sure that you push your fish to breed at every possible moment to ship to every one who demands them as quickly as posible.
With all due respect, many of these fish need to be established before they are spread out as the flavor of the day. The groups may only start with a handful of fry. It may be two years before they are grown out, breed successfully and further backup groups are established. Even then, due to questions about the purity of many fish, a responsable keeper will grow out the spawn to look for variations and signs of hybridization before putting them out in the hobby. Then as Rare Dave said, many people just won't ship anything, much less super rare fish.
Now let me apologize, I do not mean to preach.

just sharing an experience i had trying to find some fish.

dre_day wrote (View Post): › just sharing an experience i had trying to find some fish.

Again I apologize for the rant. After the recent posts across the internet, including this site by someone seeking to hurt, IMO, some of the hobbies more responsable curators, I unfortunately get a bit pissy.

teknikAL wrote (View Post): › dre_day wrote (View Post): › just sharing an experience i had trying to find some fish. Again I apologize for the rant. After the recent posts across the internet, including this site by someone seeking to hurt, IMO, some of the hobbies more responsable curators, I unfortunately get a bit pissy.

It is quite easy to make assumptions when reading text on a screen. I find it very difficult sometimes to understand or feel what the poster is intending to express. As far as person or persons trying to damage the reputation of others whether from this site or another. It happens, some of the best including myself have been railed by some of the worst.

I try and take it with stride as everyone cannot be happy all the time. There is a certain person here in California that claims to be the end all be all of Victorians. He is, but only in his mind. Many things have been said regarding my character and personality that are not in a true light. I am constantly hearing from people/customers who will never return to his "Garage" hatchery/Retail/Wholesale/Depends on who you are/place to by Victorians.

My point is, people who bash other hobbyist damage themselves more than they do their target. People come see me hours out of their way just to see if what they were told was true.

I cant get hung up on all the less than professional fish hobbyists, I Must move on and continue doing business the way I know to be right.

teknikAL wrote (View Post): › dre_day wrote (View Post): › just sharing an experience i had trying to find some fish. Again I apologize for the rant. After the recent posts across the internet, including this site by someone seeking to hurt, IMO, some of the hobbies more responsable curators, I unfortunately get a bit pissy.

After re-reading Dre's post, I don't see the problem. He simply was saying some people are careful about who they let there fish go out too, and thus it is hard to get them. I don't seen any inflammatory wording of any sort. Vics are not easy to locate, period. I can understand why some would not want to give them to just anyone, and knowing what I do about the industry, I will go one step further and say I am sure their are downright hoarders as well. When we speak of entities which in this case were nameless, just to share our feelings, opinions there is always a risk of misunderstandings. But to not speak at all, and look at it all through rose colored glasses and pretend everyone in this hobby is just a great seller that wants to give you all of their best fish is much more worrisome. "It's Freedom baby". I have heard great things about terrible sellers, and terrible things about great sellers. I think considering the magnitude of what we are trying to accomplish with this order, and the new bloodlines that will be introduced, Dre's comments were right on. Some are tight with their fish, but more importantly, new Vic blood is simply not coming into the country, so any and every fish available is a great opportunity!!!

What was stated does go on, so nothing wrong with talking about it.
Nobody was mentioned by name.

Some people will continue to put out less than pure fish, Some people will limit the distribution of rare fish they have, or hoard them.

It is what it is.

We intend to help VIC fans avoid both sides of that coin.

you can bash me all you want, its the internet and i know what comes with it. its hard not to speak your mind sometimes and people get offended.

as tr6 said, it is what it is.

no skin off my back, i am not gonna go cry in the corner listening to manson or anything.

i also was not trying to point out anyone in particular either. but before we had this shipment going on i looked all over to try to get some more vics. and i did, but i also ran into walls here and there.

thats life, some people like Jim and allen are extremely nice and willing to help out. other wont give you the time of day. oh well, sucks for me i guess.

Axel do you have any pics of your sp. Red Rock Sheller thanks John

We have all had problems in the past trying to get Vic's. Now we have a chance to bring in some new and rare Vic's. We need to stay focus on what we need to do to finish this. Bringing things up from our past is not going to do it. This is a chance of a lifetime for all of us.

Allen and I are working on some shipping options for you guys. I normally ship my fish USPS Express and priority. Allen is working on becoming a known shipper with Delta. This will help alot for the people who have big orders. We can hopefully keep the reshipping cost down to about $100.00 shipping airport to airport. If we have to we can ship American Airlines but it will be a little more. We will work with all these options for you, and try to keep the cost of reshipping down.

Hi John,

the photo up in this thread is one from a grandfather of the strain. Meanwhile I don´t keep them any more. But I will try to get a pic from the parents of the fry that we offer. Possibly after the coming weekend.